The Legit Fear Behind “Please Don’t Call On Me to Read” [Video]

By Understood

It’s scary — in the moment and even recalling it years later. Reading out loud in front of a group when you have dyslexia can be legitimately awful. Hosts Amanda Morin and Lexi Walters Wright dig into this fear with a mom whose son stumbled over reading his own name in front of his class. They hear from other parents, too, and from hockey champion Brent Sopel. Expert Bob Cunningham also weighs in with insight on whether kids really do need to read out loud, and how to make the experience better for kids who struggle with reading.

To find a transcript for this episode and more resources, visit the episode page at Understood. https://www.understood.org/podcast/in…

We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at init@understood.org.

Understood is a nonprofit and social impact organization dedicated to shaping a world where the 1 in 5 people who learn and think differently can thrive. Learn more about “In It” and all our podcasts at u.org/podcasts. Copyright © 2019 Understood for All, Inc. All rights reserved.

Transcript provided by YouTube (unedited)

0:00
[Music]
0:04
hi i’m amanda morin a writer and parent
0:07
advocate and i’m lexi walters wright
0:09
community manager for understood.org
0:12
and we are in it
0:14
init is a podcast from understood for
0:16
parents on this show we offer support
0:19
and practical advice for families of
0:21
kids who are struggling with reading
0:23
math focus and other learning and
0:25
attention issues
0:27
and today we’re talking about what kids
0:28
with dyslexia go through when they have
0:30
to read out loud in public and how
0:32
parents can help
0:34
[Music]
0:39
school was a nightmare for me it was
0:41
literally the last place i wanted to be
0:43
the only good thing for me is that at my
0:45
school there was an outdoor rink
0:47
this is brent sopel former stanley cup
0:49
champion with the chicago blackhawks an
0:52
awesome hockey player but not an awesome
0:54
student probably because brent went
0:56
through most of his school years without
0:59
a diagnosis for what he later learned
1:01
was pretty severe dyslexia he talked
1:03
about his experiences in a video for
1:05
understood
1:06
i was in ninth grade english class and i
1:09
was asked to read you know i panicked in
1:11
my mind i’m like how can i get out of
1:13
this what do i do i just started
1:15
sweating you know i was guessing at
1:16
words and you hear kids laughing and
1:18
snickering and trying to figure out what
1:20
i’m reading or
1:22
what is going on still plays in my head
1:24
you know this many years later
1:26
the number of people that we hear from
1:29
who have this exact issue where reading
1:32
in public is terrifying
1:34
so many folks write in to us about this
1:36
and tina turner writes about this in her
1:39
autobiography
1:41
governor gavin newsom has talked about
1:43
his dyslexia making it hard for him to
1:45
read in public half of the shark tank
1:47
halfway the people on shark tank right
1:50
right
1:51
[Music]
1:55
so amanda let’s back up for just a
1:57
second
1:58
what is dyslexia and
2:00
why is reading out loud an issue for
2:02
kids who have it
2:04
so dyslexia is a language-based learning
2:06
disability because it can affect reading
2:08
and in other parts of language as well
2:11
and when it affects reading it makes it
2:13
really hard for kids to decode words to
2:15
sound out what the words are to make
2:17
sense of them and to read fluently so
2:20
what happens when a kid who already has
2:23
trouble
2:24
reading is now put in front of a group
2:26
of his friends i think probably the same
2:29
thing that happens when any of us are
2:30
putting a group of our friends having to
2:32
do something that’s really tough for us
2:34
right and for parents i think it’s a
2:37
struggle too to see their kids have this
2:39
and why do you think that is
2:41
well i mean lexi we’re both parents
2:43
right
2:44
and we know that when our kids are
2:46
struggling it makes us struggle too
2:49
and i don’t know about you but when my
2:51
my kids are anxious and uncertain and
2:53
they’re feeling
2:55
embarrassed i want to jump in and help
2:57
them don’t you right i want to build a
2:59
bunch of walls around him and protect
3:01
him from everything yeah
3:03
and you can’t solve it for them and
3:05
you’re seeing their limits and you start
3:07
wondering at least i do you know i think
3:08
about my own kids and i start wondering
3:10
what’s the future going to look like
3:12
right
3:15
so we asked you to share your stories
3:17
about times that your children were
3:18
asked to read out loud in public and
3:21
here’s what you had to say
3:23
my son recently told me a story
3:26
about
3:28
him being
3:29
in class
3:31
and
3:32
knowing that it was on his iep that he
3:35
did not have to read out loud and the
3:37
teacher asked him
3:39
to read out loud anyway
3:41
and he said no
3:44
and she told him he had to
3:47
and he said no
3:49
and just refused to read it out loud
3:53
i think it’s pretty sad that it has to
3:54
come to that that
3:57
there isn’t an understanding that it
3:58
makes some people very uncomfortable and
4:01
unsure of themselves and every student
4:03
should have
4:04
the
4:05
opportunity to express themselves in a
4:08
way that
4:09
is comfortable for them
4:11
and they should be able to say no
4:13
if they aren’t comfortable with
4:15
something
4:16
so
4:17
before the winter break my son’s class
4:19
had a celebration that included an
4:21
author celebration and all the parents
4:24
were gathered the kindergarten first and
4:26
second grades were all gathered in an
4:27
auditorium and
4:29
then they had about 12 of the first
4:31
graders who were
4:33
probably the most advanced readers each
4:35
read a passage about this winter project
4:37
the class had worked on and
4:39
you know i don’t think they really
4:40
thought about what message would that
4:41
send and how to include children who
4:44
can demonstrate their
4:46
abilities and passions in different ways
4:49
[Music]
4:57
hey bob hi guys how are you bob
4:59
cunningham is a learning and attention
5:01
issues expert at understood and he has a
5:03
lot of experience working on this
5:05
challenge with kids their teachers and
5:07
their parents
5:08
so reading out loud comes up a lot in a
5:11
typical classroom why is that and what’s
5:13
the value of it
5:15
um there’s a couple reasons that
5:17
teachers want kids to read aloud um one
5:20
of the things is just for the sharing
5:22
element of it right it’s a way for you
5:24
to participate together
5:26
in an activity
5:28
um another reason
5:30
is that it helps kids practice their
5:33
fluency right so it’s not only kids with
5:36
dyslexia who need to practice
5:38
developing fluency and reading all kids
5:40
need that i’m reading out loud is a good
5:42
way to do that one of the other reasons
5:44
that you’ll have uh students read out
5:46
loud is because it gives you as the
5:49
listener an easy way to kind of critique
5:53
their reading oh this is what i’m
5:54
noticing i’m noticing this child has
5:56
trouble with this or that element of
5:58
reading and the reason i know that is
6:00
because i’m actually hearing what
6:02
they’re reading and saying to themselves
6:04
so um it’s an easier form of of uh
6:07
correcting
6:09
what is it about reading out loud in
6:12
front of other people
6:14
that
6:14
is or can be so challenging for someone
6:17
with dyslexia
6:19
yeah so you actually hit on both parts
6:21
of the issue one is the reading
6:24
um out loud and the other one is the in
6:27
front of a bunch of people
6:29
um and you really have to think about
6:31
both of those things right so somebody
6:33
with dyslexia um is going to have
6:38
issues with the reading itself
6:40
usually that looks like less fluent
6:43
reading
6:44
right so reading is more difficult it’s
6:46
choppier for them the other part of the
6:48
issue is that a lot of people do not
6:51
find it fun at all to be speaking or
6:53
reading in front of large groups of
6:56
people anyway
6:58
um and then if this is something that
7:00
you know you have difficulty with going
7:02
in reading
7:04
you’re gonna have even more trouble with
7:06
it probably so it’s both of those so
7:08
it’s not just stage right and it’s not
7:10
just fear of public speaking
7:13
no it’s different from that because
7:16
you’re actually asking someone to do
7:19
something that is sort of most difficult
7:22
for them and you’re asking them to do it
7:25
in front of a large group of people and
7:26
usually
7:28
that means you’re asking them to do it
7:29
in front of some people whose opinions
7:32
they really care about
7:33
[Music]
7:42
so as we’re hearing when a child is put
7:44
on the spot things can go
7:46
really wrong
7:48
that’s what happened to carrie’s son
7:50
carrie will you tell us about your son
7:52
cameron
7:53
sure uh cameron is 12 years old he’s in
7:57
sixth grade he’s a great kid he loves
8:00
legos he loves the drums
8:02
he has two older siblings and a dog
8:05
and he also has dyslexia and adhd
8:10
carrie had known since kindergarten that
8:11
cameron was dyslexic but his classmates
8:14
didn’t know until one day in second
8:16
grade
8:17
uh yes
8:18
it was the middle of the school year and
8:20
his lovely teacher was leaving for
8:23
maternity leave
8:24
so we were having a baby shower for her
8:27
in the classroom
8:29
and the other students were gathered
8:32
other teachers his teacher other parents
8:35
and we were all
8:36
giving her gifts for her baby and her
8:38
send off
8:40
and
8:40
cameron had a book to give to her
8:43
and all the kids were going in a circle
8:45
offering their gifts
8:46
and he opened the book and was trying to
8:49
read the inscription he had written on
8:51
it which was all the best comma cameron
8:54
and actually i had written it because he
8:56
he couldn’t write at that point either
8:59
i did not go over it with him in advance
9:01
it was kind of a last-minute mom rush
9:03
thing to be honest
9:05
and we’ve all been there yep
9:08
and he it was his turn and he struggled
9:12
through
9:12
all the best
9:14
and then he couldn’t read his name
9:16
cameron
9:18
and it was obvious that that was going
9:19
to be the next thing to read and all the
9:21
kids noticed
9:22
you know he should be reading his name
9:24
right now and he wasn’t reading it
9:26
and one child said
9:28
that’s weird why can’t you read your
9:30
name
9:31
i don’t think the child said it to be
9:34
mean or rude or to embarrass cameron i
9:37
think he smiled just didn’t have an
9:39
awareness
9:40
it was just weird
9:42
you know something they didn’t
9:43
understand and so they just kind of
9:45
called it out
9:47
and
9:48
cameron
9:49
it was just abject humiliation and he
9:51
wasn’t looking at anyone and then i kind
9:53
of looked
9:55
you know met eyes with some of the
9:56
teachers that i knew and everyone was
9:58
aware it was an uncomfortable
10:00
challenging painful moment for cameron
10:03
and so
10:04
one of the tea you know one of the
10:06
teachers said okay who’s next and we
10:07
just moved it along to change the
10:10
attention and focus to the next kid and
10:12
take it away from cameron were you
10:14
grateful for that
10:16
yes very grateful and i kind of spun out
10:19
into like an anxious place myself
10:22
um
10:23
you know my mind just kind of started
10:25
racing and i also just felt really
10:28
it’s really sad
10:30
after the incident in cameron’s
10:32
classroom carrie decided she needed to
10:34
do something about it
10:36
so she spoke to cameron’s teacher and
10:38
asked if it was okay if she came in to
10:40
teach the students about dyslexia
10:43
so it was in the morning it was probably
10:45
after their circle time around nine
10:47
o’clock so we were all sitting together
10:50
and i said
10:51
so i’m here to talk about how all of us
10:55
are born on the planet and some things
10:58
are easy for us naturally and some
11:01
things are hard for us and i gave some
11:03
examples for myself
11:05
about how some things that come easily
11:07
for me like reading and writing
11:10
are great but one thing that’s hard for
11:12
me for example is you know drumming or
11:14
legos i’m terrible at both of those
11:17
and
11:18
i opened the floor to cameron and
11:19
cameron said
11:21
what comes easy for me is legos and
11:23
drumming and i have but i also have
11:25
dyslexia so it makes reading and writing
11:27
challenging for me and then we spent a
11:30
little bit of time
11:31
discussing
11:33
what dyslexia is
11:35
and maybe people have noticed that
11:37
cameron has had a hard time
11:39
reading aloud in class
11:41
or that when he did a writing assignment
11:44
for a history fair project
11:46
his writing assignment was a little bit
11:48
shorter it may have taken him longer to
11:49
finish
11:51
i did pass around some examples of
11:55
famous people who have dyslexia and i
11:58
tried to come up with people
12:00
that they would know or could engage
12:02
with like alexander graham bell
12:04
supposedly had dyslexia and i brought a
12:06
landline telephone and most these kids
12:09
had never seen a landline telephone so
12:10
we passed around that was really cool
12:13
um there was an actor i talked about i
12:15
passed around his picture um channing
12:17
tatum who’s in the lego movies
12:20
uh as one of the voices oh yeah so then
12:23
we went around the circle and all the
12:24
kids
12:25
talked about things they knew
12:28
for themselves that were challenging and
12:30
then things that were easy for them
12:32
and it went a lot deeper and was more
12:35
poignant than i expected it to be i
12:37
thought they might say i’m good at
12:38
soccer but i’m not good at taking out
12:40
the garbage
12:42
the kids
12:44
this one little boy goes
12:46
i’m a really good athlete
12:48
but i’m challenged because sometimes i
12:50
get angry and i’m really working hard on
12:52
my anger to be more patient wow
12:56
and it was really really amazing to see
12:59
all these kids trusting each other with
13:01
their vulnerabilities carrie you really
13:03
really thought this through i mean wow
13:07
so you finished this presentation did
13:09
they clap
13:10
they did they did yeah they it was kind
13:13
of like a big warm fuzzy celebration
13:17
[Music]
13:21
bob is there some advice or strategies
13:24
that you have
13:26
that that we could give a student who
13:28
has major anxiety around the idea of
13:31
reading out loud in public
13:34
yeah so the the couple things are first
13:37
of all talk to the adult right so if
13:40
you’re a child and you have dyslexia and
13:43
you know that reading aloud is going to
13:44
be challenging for you and it makes you
13:46
anxious even thinking about the fact
13:47
that you may have to read aloud um talk
13:50
to the adults who are involved and let
13:52
them know that
13:54
just say look i am nervous about this
13:56
i’m more nervous than most people
13:58
because reading is difficult for me to
14:00
begin with
14:01
they will most likely do something about
14:04
that whether it’s take time to practice
14:06
it with you whether it’s give it to you
14:08
in advance whether it’s allow you to
14:10
listen to them read it out loud a few
14:12
times so that you can use your really
14:14
good memory um to help you as you’re
14:16
reading it there’s a whole bunch of
14:18
things that can be done but i always
14:20
encourage students or children to go
14:23
ahead and talk about the fact that you
14:25
know this is going to be hard
14:27
can you think of a story or a time when
14:30
a student who had reading issues or
14:32
maybe dyslexia came up with a really
14:36
creative or resourceful way to
14:38
participate in an assignment that did
14:41
involve reading out loud
14:45
so one of the things that i saw a
14:48
teacher do that i thought was
14:49
particularly
14:51
kind of inventive and made everyone in
14:53
the class feel good about it um was
14:56
there was a student who had real kind of
14:59
reading issues that was really
15:01
challenging for him uh many got really
15:03
frustrated about and things like that
15:05
but he’d been working really hard with
15:06
his parents and with the teacher and
15:08
with the reading specialist and he
15:10
developed a pretty strong sight word
15:12
vocabulary actually tell me what a sight
15:15
word is sure sight word is a word that
15:17
you recognize automatically without
15:19
having to sound it out
15:21
um so
15:23
this boy uh developed a pretty good
15:25
sight word vocabulary and so the teacher
15:28
was very familiar with the boys sight
15:31
word vocabulary so she went and
15:34
underlined in the book
15:36
the words that she knew he knew wow
15:39
so when he came up
15:41
he
15:43
was a little choppy reading until he got
15:46
to those words or the series of words
15:47
that he knew and then he just kind of
15:48
blew through it so everybody was really
15:51
kind of excited for him that he got up
15:53
and did that because everybody knew that
15:54
it was a big deal on the other thing
15:56
that i saw um which is a little bit
15:58
funnier story is um
16:00
sometimes teachers will have kids
16:02
read aloud in their groups
16:05
right and then each group
16:07
has to
16:09
do a kind of a round robin reading which
16:11
is one kid reads a little bit and then
16:13
the next kid picks up and reads a little
16:14
bit and then the next kid picks up and
16:15
reads a little bit so a group that
16:18
actually it was three kids and they had
16:20
a girl who
16:22
had dyslexia and was really not a fluid
16:25
um kind of reader and so what that group
16:27
did
16:28
was
16:30
they gave her
16:31
the part of the reading that sort of
16:34
repeated itself
16:36
so she got that one sort of group of two
16:40
or three sentences down and it occurred
16:43
at the end of each i’ll call it
16:45
paragraph so as the one girl read
16:49
she would read a piece and then the kid
16:50
with dyslexia would say that piece that
16:53
she knew and then the next kid would
16:54
read a piece and then the kid with
16:55
dyslexia would say that people she knew
16:58
and then
16:59
the third kid would read a piece and the
17:01
kid with dyslexia would say that piece
17:02
she knew um and so it was actually the
17:06
way that it worked was really smooth and
17:09
nice and everybody really appreciated
17:11
the creativity and i don’t even think
17:13
that it dawned on the kids in the other
17:15
groups that these girls these three
17:18
girls had done that so that their friend
17:20
with dyslexia could fully participate
17:22
that’s such a good friend yeah it really
17:24
wasn’t it wasn’t an idea that the
17:26
teacher gave them what a candy solution
17:28
right yeah the kids came up with that on
17:30
their own
17:34
[Music]
17:36
kerry what did you do directly after
17:38
this do you get back to your car and you
17:40
know punch the air
17:42
um yeah and then i got really nice
17:45
feedback from the teachers who said that
17:48
the kids
17:49
really enjoyed it and that really
17:52
helped do exactly what we had hoped was
17:54
just kind of heighten everyone’s
17:56
awareness and have a little more empathy
17:58
for each other so people just be a
18:00
little nicer
18:04
thank you so much for your time
18:06
thank you carrie thank you so much
18:08
[Music]
18:10
a lot of you had your own success
18:12
stories to share
18:14
i’m eddie and ways that i’ve been
18:16
working on reading in public is that i
18:19
have started taking an acting class to
18:21
help me feel more comfortable
18:24
just being in front of people
18:26
as the mom of a daughter with receptive
18:29
and expressive language challenges
18:32
i find myself often exhausted feeling
18:34
like i need to
18:37
protect her
18:39
to
18:40
save her from embarrassment or
18:42
challenges
18:43
and
18:45
manage teachers and
18:47
supports to ensure that she gets what
18:49
she needs
18:50
and i had a moment
18:52
when my daughter was doing a poetry slam
18:55
unit for school she had worked really
18:57
hard to create this poem and it was the
19:00
final presentation in front of the whole
19:02
school
19:03
not every kid had to go up
19:05
and my daughter jumped up and
19:07
volunteered
19:09
and i just the pit in my stomach of oh
19:12
my god what’s gonna happen
19:14
i hope this goes okay i hope she doesn’t
19:16
freeze i hope she doesn’t stumble on her
19:19
words is she ready to do this
19:21
and she got up and she owned that poetry
19:25
and i realized that her speech teacher
19:29
had been practicing with her had worked
19:32
on the poem with her
19:33
and
19:34
built the belief in her that of course
19:36
she could get up in front of the school
19:38
and do it and it was such an aha moment
19:41
for me
19:42
as a parent we can become so protective
19:45
and lose faith
19:47
in everyone else involved
19:49
that sometimes i just need to trust my
19:51
daughter and that if she wants to take
19:54
risks it’s not it’s not on me and it’s
19:57
amazing and it’s such a pivotal moment
20:02
bob do you think reading out loud should
20:04
be optional
20:07
um so
20:08
i do think reading out loud in front of
20:11
large groups should be optional
20:14
um i think it’s something that you
20:15
should practice i think it’s something
20:17
that you should build up to
20:19
right and i do think it should be
20:20
optional um i think
20:23
it’s perfectly fair and understandable
20:25
for a teacher to ask a student to read
20:28
aloud to them so that the teacher can
20:32
identify errors and you know that kind
20:34
of stuff so if they’re going to use it
20:35
as a real teaching tool
20:38
um with the student i can see
20:40
um having it not be optional um but
20:43
reading aloud in front of a bunch of
20:45
people i think should be optional
20:47
but does it get easier to read out loud
20:50
over time
20:52
so the you know the the saying is that
20:54
success builds confidence right
20:57
so as kids read aloud more and have
21:00
success with it they get more and more
21:02
confident
21:03
um i don’t know if it becomes actually
21:05
easier
21:07
for kids but it certainly becomes more
21:08
comfortable got it um
21:11
if you prep them a little bit
21:14
for kind of what’s the worst that can
21:16
happen
21:17
right the worst that can happen is
21:20
you’re going to stumble around when
21:22
you’re reading
21:23
you’re going to misidentify words you’re
21:25
going to read the wrong words
21:27
um it’s not going to be fluent
21:30
um as you’re reading
21:32
all of that sort of stuff right so
21:35
if you are working with a student or if
21:37
your child
21:39
um is far enough along in understanding
21:43
the challenge that he or she has with
21:45
reading
21:46
that kind of work can be really really
21:48
helpful
21:50
um because once a child puts it in
21:52
perspective right that’s what that’s
21:54
about it’s about putting it in
21:55
perspective
21:56
yes i might get up there i might fumble
21:58
i might stumble it’s not a secret to me
22:01
to my teacher to my parents or really to
22:03
any of my classmates that reading is
22:05
hard for me
22:07
so i’m gonna get up there and i’m gonna
22:09
do it
22:10
and if i call out a wrong word and it
22:13
ends up being funny or something i’m
22:14
gonna laugh along with everyone you know
22:16
because it’s really not that big a deal
22:19
such a good reminder so if your child is
22:22
up for that like if they’re at that
22:24
point of self-awareness and if they’re
22:26
at that point of acceptance that this is
22:29
hard um you can in fact apply some
22:32
perspective to the situation
22:35
and then it just becomes something else
22:37
that you’re gonna do
22:38
it also helps a lot if teachers
22:42
don’t make a huge deal out of it
22:44
like you know it’s not the inquisition
22:46
you’re going up there in front of the
22:47
class for it’s just to read a passage
22:51
bob that is totally awesome it’s not the
22:54
inquisition huh
22:55
no but you don’t wanna so the danger is
22:58
you don’t wanna diminish or minimize
23:01
the anxiety or fear or challenge that
23:04
this presents for a kid with dyslexia so
23:07
again you have to do a lot of work to
23:08
get a child to the place where they’re
23:11
willing and able to go up there and just
23:13
sort of go with the flow but it can be
23:15
done
23:19
[Music]
23:23
bob’s right it’s not the inquisition and
23:25
you don’t have to make a huge deal out
23:27
of it
23:28
and as carrie
23:29
told us she was able to go in and really
23:32
tell cool stories about people who had
23:35
dyslexia right and i just love that she
23:37
brought in a landline phone and that
23:38
nobody knew what a landline is right
23:41
they’re not as old as this and i bet
23:44
other parents had really creative
23:45
solutions to these kinds of situations
23:47
too
23:48
well that makes me wonder i would love
23:50
to hear from our listeners what their
23:52
creative experiences have been in
23:54
sharing
23:55
their child’s learning and attention
23:57
issues whether or not it was dyslexia or
23:59
a different issue with either a school
24:02
or a family member or a friend we’d love
24:04
to hear
24:09
you’ve been listening to init a podcast
24:11
from understood for parents our website
24:13
is understood.org where you can find all
24:15
sorts of free resources for people
24:17
raising kids with learning and attention
24:18
issues we want to hear what you think of
24:20
our show init is for you so we want to
24:23
make sure you’re getting what you need
24:25
go to you.org
24:27
podcast to share your thoughts and also
24:29
to find free resources that’s the letter
24:31
u as an understood.org
24:34
podcast
24:35
and if you like what you heard today
24:37
please tell somebody else about it
24:39
maybe even your child’s teacher you can
24:41
subscribe to init on apple podcasts
24:43
follow us on spotify or keep up with us
24:45
however you listen
24:47
between episodes find understood on
24:49
facebook twitter pinterest and youtube
24:52
or visit our website u.org podcast
24:55
that’s theletteru.org
24:57
podcast we hope you’ll come back next
25:00
episode we’ll be talking about when
25:02
people choose to talk about their kids
25:03
learning attention issues and when they
25:05
keep it a secret so at that stage
25:08
to have to disclose well you know i have
25:12
learning issues or i process information
25:14
slowly or
25:16
i can take you out to a date but i need
25:18
more time to calculate the tip it can be
25:21
really embarrassing
25:22
if you have stories about when you do or
25:24
don’t talk about your child’s learning
25:26
or attention issues you can call and
25:28
leave a voice message that we just might
25:29
use on the next episode of init you’ll
25:31
find that number at u.org
25:34
podcast
25:36
and a big thanks to everyone who left
25:37
messages about their experiences reading
25:39
in public including kelly roxanne tara
25:43
bryan carrie ayelet angela and john
25:47
our show is produced by blake eskin of
25:49
noun and verb rodeo julie subrin and
25:51
julia botero mike erico wrote our three
25:54
music and laura kushner is our director
25:56
of editorial content
25:57
init is a production of understood for
25:59
parents thanks for listening everyone
26:01
and for being in it with us
26:05
[Music]
26:12
[Music]
26:27
you

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This post was previously published on YouTube.

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The post The Legit Fear Behind “Please Don’t Call On Me to Read” [Video] appeared first on The Good Men Project.